Question for captain (with a little c) Dave: What would be, in your mind, the description of the perfect airline pilot?
Answer: Oh, I guess a guy about 57 years old with silver hair, an Air Force Academy graduate, and a former F-4 Phantom pilot.
I am going to exhale now. I think the Captain (with a capital C) of this A320 is going to be OK, in other words, no pilot error. I am sure the Feds will find a switch or button that was activated out of sequence during the scary and short ride down to the water, but for the most part, it appears both engines lost power because of waterfowl ingestion at an altitude to low for a successful re-start attempt. The question about whether he will be charged for violating the rights of the geese is yet to be decided. It would not surprise me, though.
I will keep this simple because this is a blog I write for the flying public about life on the Line. I do not get overly technical nor do I go negative... OK, most of the time I do not go negative.
At about 3,200 feet, this aircraft flew through a large formation of waterfowl. The airflow through both engines was interrupted for a micro-second by impact forces on the front compressor fans which snuffed the fire inside the hot sections, apparently at the same time on both sides. Unbelievable! The engines will go into a survival mode and try to re-ignite on their own. If there is internal damage from the impact forces and if (big if) they re-ignite, you will have new problems, such as high vibration and fire outside of the hot section.
Now, consider the altitude of 3,200 feet for a moment. This is about the level where we go from the initial climb segment (to get safely away from the ground in case an engine quits) to an acceleration segment. (That would be 287 mph/250 knots until above 10,000 feet where we let her go to Warp speed; all air carriers do this, in one form or another.) In this case, the engines flamed out at the top of the climb segment where the air speed is very close to best glide speed. Hold that thought for a moment...
This Captain (with a capital C) is, among other things, a glider pilot. This means a sailplane. A sailplane is a beautiful, light-weight flying machine that can stay aloft for hours in the hands of a skilled pilot. They can actually ascend in the right atmospheric conditions. An A320 with both engines flamed out is going down fast. My 320 pilot manual says to expect a descent rate of at least 1600 feet per minute and a gliding distance of 2.5 miles per 1,000 feet of altitude. This is best case scenario! In a real event, things rarely go that well. Now back to the 3,200 feet altitude...
The crew sees the geese, then feels the impact forces. Flight deck alarms are going off, one after the other. You can feel the aircraft decelerating. Get the nose down, fast! Maintain airspeed!What is happening here? A sick feeling washes over you from head to toe. The altimeter is unwinding as Fi-Fi starts down. Got to try an engine re-start... Best speed for an engine re-start is 345 mph/300 knots. That is not going to happen- cannot push the nose further over to accelerate. OK, let's start the auxiliary power unit for an assisted start. That is not going to happen- not enough time. Watch out! Keep the nose down! Maintain airspeed! My God, the altimeter is below 2,000 feet already! The Electric Jet is going down and going down fast. Now what? If the Captain has picked the wrong ground track, as in trying to make an airport, while thinking about all of this (or freaking out), everyone will die in a huge, kerosene fueled fireball rising above the Manhattan skyline.
And that is about it. In my humble opinion, what this Captain did was miraculous. Yeah, I know about the crew concept. I live with it more than the wife of my youth. If this had gone terribly wrong, though, the government/media finger would have been pointed squarely at the captain (this time, with a little c) for allowing it to happen, no matter what.
I have never seen, read of, or heard about such a feat of airmanship. I would feel inadequate to carry this guys flight bag.
Life on the Line continues...
51 comments:
I read somewhere that they didn't close the watertight doors on the bottom side.
I fully expect him to fired and jailed for that.
What BS.
The crew and that man did way more that the statistics would lead you to expect.
Why not go after the people that let the airplanes where the geese live, or attracted the geese where the airplanes live, which ever is the case.
And why isn't the bottom side water-tight by default?
Nice insight into what went on in the cockpit. All that does is solidify the Captain's reputation as a Professional pilot who is very good at his job.
I'm sure the 1st Officer (who has barely been mentioned) deserves as much praise for handling everything else in what could only be described as a "busy" cockpit.
BTW, what would "everything else" consist of?
Water tight doors? There are many ports on the bottom. The Airbus has a "ditching" button which seals many of the ports/intakes on the bottom. That is why it didn't sink so fast.
Media, as usual, had much speculation around this incident.
"I would feel inadequate to carry this guys flight bag."
Like most airplane cranks or people who really think about the awesome responsibility of flying an airplane full of dads, moms, kids and flammable liquids, I feel pretty much inadequate to carry any pilots flight bag.
Dave, that weekend there were 3 instances of bird hits on passenger jets.
Not discounting the fantastic bit of flying by Captain Sullenberger and team, be it geese in New York, kites in Kolkata, or vultures in Guadalajara, three times in that incident laden week-end, pilots across three countries and three airlines, have calmly done what they repeatedly train for, and completed their primary duty, by safely bringing back the people in their charge.
Hats off to all of them, and to crews in general. Hopefully airline managements will keep this weekend in mind, the next they negotiate with pilots.
Thanks for the in the know update. My husband loves the content, I love the writing-- you are one of the most unusual things that we now have in common. I bet you never thought that your blog would be a marital aid!
Thanks and God speed.
The rest of the crew has pretty much been completely ignored.
That kind of annoys me.
The Capt. even got an invite to the inauguration yesterday!
Flying an Airliner is a team effort.
Both pilots and all the flight attendants ought to be recognized for their great landing and well executed evacuation.
Yes, the Airbus has a ditch switch, but it was not activated.
And yes, while the whole crew should be praised, the pilot in command was the captain. The copilot was smart enough to give over control to the more experience captain (and probably is required by company regs). I see nothing wrong with praising the captain, as he was the one who flew the plane all the way to the last moment.
Captain Dave, you have our attention. You are our port hole into the flying world. But I suspect we all would be extraordinairily pleased to find ourselves transported by you. Please do not count yourself short. I know that the incident required some extraordinary flying, but surely, almost every pilot, somewhere deep, keeps a bit of that in a secret plce even they are unaware of owning. Otherwise there would be more fatalities each year!
Thank you for this look on the inner sanctum! And thank you for being one of those we all trust!
Does it really matter if you have glider experience if you are on the Bus? After all you just follow the green dot?
Dave, love the blog, excellent work. Interesting commentary regarding the Hudson River incident. I've been following the blog for more than a year, would love to meet you if you find yourself at DTW with a few hours to spare. We'll do lunch and chat about aviation, I'm also a pilot (albeit not a professional one - I wish!). If you're interested, drop me a line at slavinger-at-yahoo-dot-com. Fly safe!
""And yes, while the whole crew should be praised, the pilot in command was the captain. The copilot was smart enough to give over control to the more experience captain (and probably is required by company regs). I see nothing wrong with praising the captain, as he was the one who flew the plane all the way to the last moment.""
Company policy here is the Right Seat fly's during emergencies, so the Captain can use his experienced brain to make decisions.
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Can you add any more information about why the APU was not an option? what is the amount of time needed to start it?
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This is just an incredible read. BTW, I've read you long enough to say that you're a big-"C" Captain, Dave.
I'm not actually qualified to speak, but I think the APU supplies ships power, (and maybe Air Conditioning) when the main engines are shut down and is shutdown when the main fires are burning.
it takes approximately 1 minute to start the APU on a A320. There wasn't enough time for this, and the priority remains the trajectory. I think that's why he said it wasn't an option at this time.
Given that every single person on the aircraft got off alive, and in pretty short order, I'd agree that the whole crew deserve huge praise. Its fairly natural for one person to be picked out though, and the Captain is certainly deserving of the plaudits.
Thanks for the inside view, Captain Dave (yes, the big C was deliberate).
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thanks for that info on the engine and APU restart. I found this in searching more for info, and it is about the most opposite from this Hudson River case as you can get. It also has some of the considerations in why restarting engines is a bit complicated:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinnacle_Airlines_Flight_3701
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Brilliant writing about a brilliant Captain, brilliant flying, brilliant crew, and a miraculous event and recovery!
Now Dave, I think you are a humble man and would not like the honour and respect you have given to Captain Stellenberger on your post being diverted back to yourself as many are doing. Right?
Well - too bad! You are indeed worthy of Captain with a capital C, with your training, experience, attitude, character, values and faith, all of which are evident through nearly 5 years of your writing. Looks like many of us believe you do indeed have “the right stuff” for whatever may be thrown at you.
The outcome of events may remain in God’s hands, but we'd trust you completely for doing your part.
To those commenting on the ditch switch. Did you see the pictures of the bottom of the plane when it was hoisted out? Ditch switch activated wouldn't have changed a thing. The belly is just not going to stay watertight in a ditching.
anonymous 823- getting the green dot restored by resetting the FAC switch is only a maybe. It may not be accurate after rat power comes on line.
jesse- I will bet the captain was flying this airframe down to the water.
APU inquiries- the APU can be used to start the engines in an airborne re-start attempt. It takes at least one minute to fire up the APU, then another minute or two to stumble through the emergency checklists.
Check out http://www.havkom.se/eng/civilluftfart-gottrora.html
For a report on a MD-81 which experienced a dual flameout after 25 to 65 seconds after take off (pdf file a bit down on the page). All 123 passengers and 6 crew survived the crash landing in a field after creating a path in the forrest leading upp to the landing site.
Dave - "Bob in Minnesota" asked 11.27 am Jan 19 - given that the engines were out and also the rat -what was powering the controls ? My guess would have to be "batteries", but it would be good if you could expand on that - please
"I am sure the Feds will find a switch or button that was activated out of sequence during the scaring and short ride down to the water"...
Well, I was just asking myself: Will the FED team at it's session, during the find out, pondering, be served some coffee and cookies?
Yes the excitement has begun to die down. I'm sure the crew was happy to have a distraction like the inauguration to get the media away.
There are lots of things to wonder about until the NTSB report comes out. So, if I were to allow myself (cough) to speculate, I'd wonder about things like..
- Was the RAT out &/or the APU started? I've heard it SOP to leave the APU running on takeoff, especially in winter. That sure would have been handy. I saw some video very soon after splashdown and I think I saw some exhaust about the tail.. so I wonder.
- They apparently had slats out, unclear about flap settings. I wonder if they had flaps, and what the touchdown speed was. Best glide is about 200 kt (?) but you sure wouldn't want to touchdown that fast.
Wonderful piece about an amazing performance by a Captain and his crew, but a mistake in describing a sailplane. When a glider pilot is going cross country on a half way decent day, the pilot can add water balast to make the ship as heavy as the certification will allow. This will not increase the glide ratio, but increase the speed at which any ratio is obtained. When on a contest speed task or a long X-country, it makes a major differance. I'll bet the Captain wished he has a 50:1 glider under him when he hit the birds!
Glider training did provide the Captain with certain things he could have, and probably did use. When taking off on tow, you are taught to be ready for a tow rope break or towplane failure at every minute. Where I fly, if you don't call out 200' (above the ground), on a check ride, you can almost guarantee the check pilot will pull the release and let you practice a rope break. (In gliders, below 200', straight ahead, above. do a 90 - 180 turn, and around 400', fly an abbreviated normal landing pattern.)
When you get into X-country, you learn to keep an eye for a good landing field, and, if you fly enough, you will land out many times and learn that it can be an acceptable conclusion.
Bruce Patton
Glider and private power.
Slight mistake in my previous comment. If you do a 90 followed by a 180 degree turn, you better have a cross runway. Should have said 90 - 270 degree turn.
Bruce Patton (landed out pilot)
Dave I agree with your description of the flight deck activity. I'm sure those minutes passed like a few seconds!
To folks questioning various switch positions, maybe this will put those things in context:
In the 'good ole days' when I was instructing on single engine aircraft - as my student neared the end of their training, I'd pass on a critical lesson as it had been taught to me. I'd simulate an engine failure at low altitude immediately after takeoff.
There were only two things I wanted the student to concentrate on. 1) Maintain flying speed - get the nose down! 2) Find a safe place to land - usually straight ahead (give or take a little).
There was no time to go through the checks and drills that were taught for engine failures at higher altitudes. It was an exercise in priorities and survival.
Captain Sullenburger obviously demonstrated just how it's supposed to be done. I will humbly follow you and ask to carry his hand luggage.
From what I've read they had the APU running.
The controls were handed to C for FO to run the checklists. Excellent glide run and excellent check-lists run, as Dave just showed us.
Good post Dave. I used to fly a Luscombe 8a and a Piper Commanche but never felt comfortable as a passenger in a commercial jet. Reading your blog has helped. Though when I board I almost always look in the cockpit and check for gray hair(Re: you and Sully) I would always trade 25yr old reflexes for 25 years of experience. Keep it up!
Check this out. The last time a Captain with a capital "C" pulled off a miracle like this was in 1963 in St. Petersburg Russia. Here's a link. http://www.sptimes.ru/index.php?action_id=2&story_id=28063
If the A320 glides 2.5 miles for every 1000' of altitude lost, that's a glide ratio of 15:1.
Not bad.
The glider I trained in (SGS 2-33A) had a 22:1 ratio.
I wrote about the Captain's (big C ;) glider background on my site recently, and came to the conclusion that it may have helped him in ways even he wasn't fully aware of.
By the way, the FAA airmen registry shows that he is not just a glider pilot, but also holds a glider instructor rating.
"There were only two things I wanted the student to concentrate on. 1)
Maintain flying speed - get the nose down! 2) Find a safe place to land
- usually straight ahead (give or take a little)."
That is what I what I was taught--close enough anyway. Biggest difference was the plan until turning crosswind was "straight ahead". Period.
And I was taught to have a landing spot picked out at all times.
Dave,
What about the compressor stall in the plane's right engine two days prior to the Hudson ditch? Just a crazy coincidence? Or perhaps an aggravating factor that meant the engine ran hotter than normal and might have survived the injestion otherwise? I'm sure the NTSB will be looking long and hard at the right engine to make this determination.
I am sure that the NTSB will look into the compressor stall that happened a few days earlier. My feeling is that it did not make a difference for the final outcome.
The moment a goose flies into the engine and metal parts get loose, it is pretty much guaranteed that there will be a cascade of failures pretty much destroying the engine.
Yep, once that happens your goose is cooked for sure!
Flight control surfaces/APU/RAT: (further my question 19Jan)...FYI, Wall St Journal article 20Jan09 reports both RAT deployed and APU operating at time of ditch. Reporters not sure whether RAT deployed automatically or not (nor would I begin to guess whether RAT auto deploy capability even exists...although sounds good). When I originally posed question regarding flight controls I was thinking there was no way battery power would provide sufficient backup for actual movement of flight control surfaces, at least from a design point of view, given a plane could lose all primary engine power at high altitude and be able to glide for several minutes. Still would like to steer and bank on the way down...
Awesome blog, Captain Dave. I'll buy the book!
Regards
Bob in Minnesota
Hi Dave
Reading your commentary on the cockpit atmosphere is about similar to what I have been going over myself, but being a B733/4 driver I cannot comment on the Airbus philosophy, but what I feel I need to say is...the part about being a F4 airforce driver blah blah etc makes me shiver,...
as it was in this situation it was probably to his and the entire crew and passenger advantage for he "snapped" into action, took control etc etc and began a single crew mentality to save the day...
but as you know this is not what CRM and cockpit harmony is all about in the airline industry, fortunately this is exactly the type of character needed in this very rare situation and not the methodical re-evaluative process required of crew for the normal flame-out/fire/severe damage etc etc.
Thus all the glory being bestowed upon him is probably justified, but in the recurrent CRM refresher training in the future, this will be brought up as a non CRM enviroment where the "ex-airforce" fast jet fighter pilot reactions saved the day as opposed to the b737BritishMidlands crash where a crew effort was needed to realize the mis-diagnosis of the engine shut down etc etc.
Since this I regularily wonder about the large flocks of wild birds around out coastal destinations here in South Africa and what would be my actions should this absolute disaster ever befall me and my crew.
Regards from a very warm and thundery Johannesburg, South Africa
Hey Dave,
Check this out if you haven't already seen it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJWNiozmgYw&eurl=http://www.wwtdd.com/
Great read, Dave
I agree Capt S did an absolute amazing job. I will however point out another multi-ton glider and mind blowing flying job.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider
CK
@Jesse: yes it takes a crew to fly it but it's the captain who is on the hook for the safe operation of the flight. If he cartwheeled it down the Hudson or on approach to Teterboro you know the blame would be on his shoulders.
@Larry: if they sack this captain because he failed to hit the ditch switch (if that's even the case) I'll be hugely surprised. The plane waterlogged because a frantic passenger tried to open a back door without ever looking out the window (like the safety card says to). That broke the seal and accelerated the sinking.
And...if you can land an A320 on the fairway of a golf course or a corn field you're a better pilot than I ever was. It ain't a Cessna. There are very few suitable landing spots once you leave the runway. Captain Sullivan was very fortunate to have the presence of mind to find one and be level headed enough to pull it off. I'm not sure I could say the same if it were me.
Having never flown a 'bus I don't know if it's normal to cut the APU for take-off. I do know on the big Boeings we'd turn all but one pack off and let the APU turn. In any case, at 3200 feet the APU is just along for the ride down.
what a great pilot man.....
Anon 1:15, I'm neither a pilot nor do I know Captain Sullenberger in person, but having heard some facts about his personal career (safety advisor, NTSB investigation board member, ...) I highly doubt he wouldn't use proper CRM where appropriate and, in general, be a good sports who is fun to fly with for pilots in the right seat. I work in a completely different field, but my favourite co-workers so far were experienced, enthusiastic folks, some years senior to me, who enjoyed teaching me while I was solving my problems. I think all of these criteria also apply in the cockpit. It may be well appropriate to file his military flying experience in his 'lessons well learned' folder, but I'd really be careful with the conclusion that this may have led him to have the character of a boss who thinks he is always right.
Please don't misunderstand--I in no way think I could do anywhere as well, or that the Captain should have done better. I was, am, and will not find fault with anybody associated with that flight.
I was say that the Main Stream Media would find fault.....
In recent years, there has been nobody out where the fight is that can't be crucified by the press.
Dave...Fox News reported that the same plane had to make an emergency landing two days before this crash. Do you know anything about that?
Dave, thanks for the insight.
I imagine those passengers will be pinching themselves for a long time to come.
What were the odds... an ex F4 fighter pilot AND a glider pilot. Miraculous.
For those interested in simulation of the flight, a visit to Neptunus Lex might be of interest. One of his posts references another blogger and pilot who has run sims of the flight.
I would humbly join our host in requesting the honor and privilege of carrying CAPT Sullenberger's kit. The discourse is on the site of one of Dave's peers and includes interesting items about FiFi's software and the consequence of losing both engines. The system restore defaults and places only the captain's seat in command of the aircraft. He goes from being the non flying pilot instantly to being the one with flight control. I'd refine the URL but Lex is worth a read anytime.
I think this man his a hero and also the 1st officer of course .I have never heard that a plane could land into the water without damages.it s completely amazing.....But i think,the crew have also played a important role in this story.They have evacuated all the passengers without panic.That s a good story with a nice end.
Hey=)
i found your link on my blog, thanks:)
Are you a aviatorstudent, or do you work as it? An friend of mine was in Florida a few years ago to study aviation and stuff...:)
Everyone was amazed by something else. I work in marketing and am exposed to endless meetings, lengthy emails where nothing gets done.
What impressed me the most was the cool "UNABLE" the Captain issued when suggested he make it to an airport. Then he just did the best job he could.
I even made a blog post on that.
Over the years I have had occasion to communicate over voice circuits of one kind or another.
Far and going away ATC frequencies have the best circuit discipline.
At the risk of letting a secret out of the bag, my favorite example of that is a time when my-wife-to-be and I were joy-flying.
On approach to Ventura there was a protracted squawking from the radio, followed by me picking up the mike and saying "[callsign} roger".
She looked at me in awe and said "how did you understand all of that?"
I said "I know what I expected him to say--if it had sounded like anything else, I would have said "[callsign] say again".
the more urgent the situation, the tighter the discipline.
And another secret--thos "unables" were third in his priorities.
The short explanation to the success of that mission was the rule for priorities: "Aviate, Navigate, Communicate"
I am happy that he got his Warhol 15 and then was left alone. I was terribly afraid the press would dredge up nude pictures or some such irrelvance.
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