Airmanship
noun
1. the art of operating aircraft.
This will be the last post on this subject.
This will be the last post on this subject.
I am sitting (outside) at my favorite Starbucks. My Japanese Death Missile is leaning on it's side stand. The lethal four cylinder, 135 horse, liquid cooled engine is ticking as it cools in the early morning sunrise. On the miniature glass table is a medium coffee (strong) and a Wall Street Journal... Life is good.
Stand-by one...
There is an article about Captain Sully versus the unnamed captain of the ill fated Dash 8-Q400. Apparently, Captain Sully demonstrated superior airmanship (no argument there) whereas the Dash 8 captain did not... As my British friend, Trevor, says, "Hang about!" Let me read that again. An "alleged" leak from the NTSB says the Dash 8 captain pulled the stick back at the moment of stall instead of pushing forward. The writer goes on to say that the Dash 8 captain violated the well known principles of stall recovery.
This really ticks me off.
Stand-by one...
There is an article about Captain Sully versus the unnamed captain of the ill fated Dash 8-Q400. Apparently, Captain Sully demonstrated superior airmanship (no argument there) whereas the Dash 8 captain did not... As my British friend, Trevor, says, "Hang about!" Let me read that again. An "alleged" leak from the NTSB says the Dash 8 captain pulled the stick back at the moment of stall instead of pushing forward. The writer goes on to say that the Dash 8 captain violated the well known principles of stall recovery.
This really ticks me off.
My initial reaction is to get technical and enter a dissertation about the aerodynamic stall, an imminent stall and the different recovery techniques. Would it do any good other than make me feel better? Probably not... Instead, I will thank God on a public forum that I did not lose control of a Dash 8-100 over the outer marker.
I do not know why this 400 crew lost the aircraft, but I will not criticize their actions. That is something I learned thousands of flight hours ago from a few crusty old captains. Never, ever, ever criticize your fellow pilot's airmanship. Why? Because you will do something as bad or worse a few days or weeks later. And there it is.
Life on the Line continues...
35 comments:
I am ashamed of even my arms-length associaiton with the "news" industry.
I can sense the discomfort of Sully and his family with the attention they have gotten already, but to openly compare the two incidents and the skills of the aircrews must be extremely painful for him. And I cannot imagine what the families of the Dash-8 crew are going through to hear their loved ones blamed for something based on conjecture and "leaks".
Crap.
Thanks Dave. We really appreciate your take on this.
Tim G in MN
Been following this on many different aviation forums, and as Dave corectly says, the "blame" apportioned to the pilot/captain in his absence is plain silly, what if he had been aware of possible tailplane icing and his reactions were based on this assumption....just watch this video and make up your own mind..
"This video provides information about ice-contaminated horizontal stabilzers. It presents a physical description of the tailplane icing problem, symptoms of ice contamination and suggested recovery procedures. This video was produced as a result of insights gained from the NASA/FAA Tailplane Icing Program. Keywords: flight, flying, fly, club, ground, school, schools, training, student, airport, airports, pilot, pilot’s, airplane, airplanes, aircraft, instructor, instruction, air, plane, aviation, video, videos, film, private, commercial, certificate, solo, license, atp, atpl, ppl, airlines, airline, simulator, simulation, fs, fs2004, fsx, Cessna, piper, king, light, katana, single, engine, twins, twin, course, courses, IFR, VFR, ATC, CFI, pilots."
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2238323060735779946
from an ex-turboprop pilot in Sunny South Africa
Hey dave,
Thanks for all your great posts.
I agree about criticism of co-workers. I worked with animals for years and I noticed that the guys that made fun of other peoples choices in dangerous animal situations were the ones we had to go rescue the following week while a camel tried to push them through a chained link fence. There are moment to moment differences in any crisis that are sometimes irretrievable. Everyone should have the benefit of the doubt.
My heart also goes out to the families of the Dash 8 crew and passengers. I hope they know a lot of folks share their pain no matter what series of events caused it.
People don't know when to keep their mouth shut.
blame someone who died giving his best to avoid the unavoidable leave me without kind words.
I've learn to do not criticize anybody and their flight skills during my private pilot training. Just after you blame someone, you will really do something equal or worse.
I generally agree on not criticizing but when lives are lost then not criticizing can cost future lives. The facts aren't in yet but if this pilot did indeed react to the wrong stall then he failed those who entrusted their lives to him.
I Live in NZ and i agree with the posts about the news media in all forms and the way they cover aviation... its normally when something tragic happens, and it is always (here in nz at least) an aircraft has 'plummeted' or 'plunged' into what ever and it annoys the heck out of me.. i have a brother who is both a Private Pilot and a A&P engineer, and to say that those who a) fly & b) maintain the worlds fleets of airplanes deserve the respect that they get.. A Pilot or A&P engineer goes through more training than any driver or car mechanic.
I agree with you Dave, there is no way to compare the two incidents... they are two totally different scenarios and im sure that the crew on the Q400 did everything possible in the very short amount of time that they had. the crew aboard are just as much heros as the hudson crew.
I enjoy reading your blog and keep up the good work
Hayden in NZ
Training curricula and company Standard Operating Procedures must also be part of any accident investigation. If a pilot were to receive poor or inadequate training for differentiating between a tail stall, and a main-wing stall (with stick pusher activating), then how should the "blame" be apportioned?
Any public speculation about the actual cause before the NTSB has finished their work is pointless.
Never, ever, ever criticize your fellow pilot's airmanship. Why? Because you will do something as bad or worse a few days or weeks later.
Not criticizing because of THAT seems to be just a bit cowardly. None of us is perfect, but in all spheres of life we judge others and ourselves. Where would the judicial system ... or scientific peer review be, if others adopted this attitude?
fche
There are many forms of criticism and judgment.
One type is intended to build and encourage another’s growth and efforts. Scientific peer review is an entirely different type of criticism to test the believability or trustworthiness of a colleague’s thesis or work. Hopefully, this is done from much knowledge and experience in the area.
Another type is in a judicial court where its role is to make a judgment for which there will be a consequence, and its intention is to maintain the law for everyone’s good.
Another type builds up the ego of the critic by knocking another person with no intention to be helpful.
The criticism Dave holds back on is that of judging a peer, the sort of criticism that is speculative and may come from a self-righteous or superior attitude.
Life has taught me to hold back on this type of criticism and judgment as “There but for the grace of God go I.”
Noella,
The criticism Dave holds back on is that of judging a peer, the sort of criticism that is speculative and may come from a self-righteous or superior attitude.
And that is fine - one does not want to be a jerk.
However, Dave wrote literally about withholding criticism of another's mistake because one might make the same mistake. You see how that is a different matter, right?
fche, point understood, but I still think Dave's reason for holding back criticism in events like this is fair enough.
Anonymous @ 10:33 AM:
The official position of Bombardier is that the Q400 isn't vulnerable to icing induced tailplane stall.
NASA's video on tailplane stalls is almost completely concerned with aircraft that have aerodynamically powered (trim tab) elevators. Put enough ice on the tailplane and the elevators will be pulled to their downward stops, snatching the stick forward with more force than any human pilot could muster to restore the elevators to neutral.
In contrast, the Q400 has hydraulically actuated elevators. Icing induced aerodynamic forces are not strong enough to overpower the hydraulics. As such, the elevators cannot be forced into full downward deflection by ice.
@Dave:
Professional courtesy is one thing but flat out refusing to criticize a fellow pilot's airmanship is quite another. If, at the end of the NTSB investigation, the preponderance of evidence suggests that the flight crew bear most of the blame for the crash then they ought to be criticized for their airmanship as they clearly didn't demonstrate enough of it.
Stuff happens. To be human is to be heroic - to be human is to make mistakes and suffer.
Yes, Dave. A good cup of coffee and the Wall Street Journal. Sometimes that's just as good as it gets.
And I'm grateful.
anonymous 1033- I have seen that video about 20 times, but thank you anyway.
anonymous 111- I will leave criticizing to the Feds.
fche- cowardly? You have got to be kidding me. No, it falls under the umbrella of not tempting fate.
anonymous 636- I will leave criticizing to the Feds.
noella- You got it. "There but by the Grace of God go I."
To All Readers- There is something about this accident that does not pass the smell test. I will be surprised if the final report finds that the captain stalled the aircraft through neglect.
I respect Dave's reticence when it comes to criticizing other pilots airmanship. To me that is a pilot's view. As an aging Bob Dole once said about a really aged Strom Thurmon, "I follow Sen. Thurmond around and do what he does. He eats a banana, I eat a banana." Or something like that.
But I also think that it is way too soon to draw conclusions about airmanship. I'm just a layman but I have long been struck be the difference between the manner in which accident investigations are handled in the US and in other countries.
In the US accident investigations go on for many months before a report is issued and that report seems to be well researched. In many other countries it seems that fault gets spinned almost immediately. I laugh a sad laugh when I hear the Minister of Transportation, or the Prime Minister announce the cause and lay blame before the ground has even cooled. It is indicative of a culture where no one accepts responsibility for anything except absolute success, or where it's better to blame the other guy first.
So while I follow the details which dribble out with interested curiosity, I don't have much respect for those who lack the self control to gather all the facts before knowledgeable experts, and let them pursue the details before spinning the situation in the media.
d.
The dreaded two words on a pilot's epitaph are, "SWISS CHEESE." The prayer is, of course, "There but the grace of God..."
Anyone with any level of competence in the industry knows exactly what that means, and Dave has used that analogy perfectly in previous posts.
Which "holes" lined up and how is going to take some more time to fully come to the surface, but a few have come to light already. They're insidious little bastards, and not a damned single one of all professional aviators are immune. I'm personally seeing more and more "holes" lining up, and that's standard for a situation like this. It never is just one unique causal action/event.
Dave, you're exactly right. Some sort of public placation is in order, and it will happen in the realm of nonsensical restrictions. Nevermind the fact that the type has flown millions of hours fatality-free in over two decades, someone has to pay.
As far as criticizing the crew? That's beyond professional courtesy and any other feel-good yet somehow "professional" puffery- IT JUST ISN'T DONE BY FELLOW LINE PILOTS.
It isn't.
JACE
My friend is an engineer for Bombardier in Canada on the Q400. Our conversation today went like this:
Me: So what can you tell me about this Dash crash in Buffalo?
Them: I can't really talk about it right now.
Me: Was it the airplane?
Them: No
That's all I could squeeze out. Obviously, I'm not saying anything about the crew, rather would just let you guys know what I learned today. I've posted before, but am going to stay anonymous for this one.
Hey Dave - does your British friend Trevor teach at a UK flying school? Just curious since the Trevor I know says exactly that. :-)
Dave, i commend your loyalty and respect to your fellow airmen and flying in general. The industry needs more guys like you. My prayers go to everyone involved in this tragedy. May the force be with the Q400 through the turbulent times ahead...
I will thank God on a public forum that I did not lose control of a Dash 8-100 over the outer marker."
I'm using your blog comments to do the same thing.
I have had ice; I have made approaches at less than the recommended speed; I have had uncommanded pitch excursions; I have hit wake turbulence; I have been fatigued in flight; I have reacted incorrectly. I thank God that I've never had such things come together anywhere that I've run out of options.
Interesting part in today's AVwebFlash about the possibility of pilot doing the right thing for an aircraft he had lots of hours on, the Saab 340.
More at http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/1320-full.html
I think it's appalling that some kind of gentlemens' honour code would preclude professional pilots from reporting incidents of serious professional misconduct. What kind of gross errors would it take for one member of to flight deck to feel compelled to report another's incomptence? I simply cannot believe that all pilots would sit quietly while their colleague, whom they might know to be a cowboy pilot, throws the controls around. Do these guys seriously pass the buck to third parties (eg the random FAA flight inspections and whatnot) when they could rectify issues themselves? I wonder how many lives the honour code which Dave reports have cost?
Dave: I absolutely love your blog and have been a satisfied lurker for a while now.
Respectfully, I take issue with your refusal to be critical of this other pilot. I understand why you want to be loyal. But I don't understand why you think that being critical is "tempting fate."
As a pilot, your job involves more applied science than almost any other profession I can think of. Lives depend on your ability to think scientifically. Being superstitious (not criticizing this other pilot to no "tempt fate") or loyalty to the profession are not good reasons to ignore the scientific, objective facts surrounding what happened near Buffalo. As I've read (at length in this great blog), you don't ignore scientific facts when you're calculating your fuel burn rate when you're 37th in line at JFK. So why would you choose to not comment on objective facts here and attribute it to some superstitious concern about "tempting fate"?
Again, it is absolutely fair to withhold judgment until enough facts are in. But to withhold your expert judgment for these other reasons seems intellectually dishonest. Bystanders like me need to hear the opinions of experts like you.
I took our host's comment in the spirit of "be humble and don't assume that you wouldn't make a similar or worse mistake". I'm sure that he has looked hard at the role of pilot error in accidents and vowed that he would learn from those mistakes.
frank abingale: gentlemen's honour code? No, I am not talking about "cowboy pilots" that kill everyone while trying to do an aileron roll. I am talking about operational decisions made in the heat of op-specs combat that causes an accident and/or cockpit crews who get an ugly surprize which leads to an accident because of a decision made on the spot. It is easy to be an armchair quarterback. Gross errors? Not hardly. Aircraft accidents happen when you least expect them.
cletis walkman- thanks for the compliments on this blog. You commented about "superstitious concern." Yeah, I believe that fate is truly a hunter of obnoxious and arrogant pilots. Even if you are one of the nicest guys (Captain Sully) in the sky, you are in a career field that deals with velocity, altitude and energy states. My views are probably looked at as being silly in today's world but they have served me well for a lot of flying hours. Knock on wood... I have never had an accident or incident. Why? Luck, mostly... Many pilots who are better than I have had bad things happen.
As a non flier (except as a passenger) I am unable to comment too closely but I think I agree that it is totally out of order to criticise in this way, particularly based on conjecture!
By the way what bike are you riding? Mine is a Honda VFR 800
Dave...great conversation. Once again...as a Buffalo resident, don't forget about the 50 people (including the crew) and their families. The true miracle is the two women who survived as the plane crashed on their house. If you have seen any pictures of the crash site, it is amazing that they survived relatively unhurt. Long Street in Clarence Center, NY will never be the same. God Bless all involved!
I am a bit at a loss at the number of people who are monday-morning quarterbacking Dave's refusal to be judge jury and executioner before the data is in. I can spot the people who have no clue what they're talking about. They usually have the most bluster, and figure they have something to teach the world. Those who really do know their stuff also seem to operate as though there is always something new they can learn.
This is tragic for all. The crew and the passengers families. I am growing tired of all these media folks commenting on things they do not know about. On the subject, I am now irritated with "Sully" as well. This guy tells our Congress that good pilots are no longer wanting to fly because of "pay cuts". WHAT...I love flying so much that I would do it for free and here this guy is saying that the standards have been lowered and that inexperianced pilots will be a problem of the future. I have a big problem with this as a private pilot working towards my commercial rating. Sorry "Sully" we can not all be Air Force pilots, sorry we all do not have the lucky superpilot powers given to you on your departure that cold New York day. This goes hand in hand with the discussion of criticism and "Sully" just gave me a big blow to the gut for everything I have been working for and everything I strive to be. I feel as an individual and my piloting abilaties have been thrashed on because "Sully" has the opportunity to speak his mind to our Congress about his particular situation. I do not want to hear about his 40% pay cut or his pension problem. I would do his job for free and this guy has the nerve to scare the flying public out of their confidence with pilots in the future. I say shame on him and his actions. If he wanted to go to our Congress and talk about duty times, low pay and the grand ol' game of stress on the Capitan, Great, but I can not accept him saying that the cockpits of the future are dangerous because not all pilots are as good as him. The best thing I ever learned in the cockpit is that some pilots may have a slight or better stick and rudder ability than others, and thats it. Thats it, all that really means is one guy or gal is just a little bit better than the next.
Dave if you get a chance can you comment on what you think of Capt. Sullenbergers' comments.
Thank You, Blake Phoenix,Az
Sorry, I tend to agree with Sully on this issue.
This is more the case in Europe than the USA, but the airlines have realised that they can off-load more and more of the cost of training onto new pilots. While it's always been a money-limited profession for new pilots to get into, it's now worse than ever.
Eg: Integrated training £75,000
On top of this new pilots are now expected to fund their type rating, which is roughly a further £30k. Larger airlines are able to simply apply a recruitment freeze and pick up type-rated pilots later on when the leave the budget airlines. Very convenient.
Also for Dave's rule of things coming in threes - see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7909683.stm
You always say things come in three's. How strangely correct you are.
Number 3. Amsterdam
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7909683.stm
Love the blog by the way. Have found it recently and actually read from start to finish!
Isn't this #4?: Denver; NYC/Hudson River; Buffalo; Amsterdam...
Tim G in MN
I'd also never blame a pilot for a decision in an emergency. You can expect he did his best. Sometimes it is just fate.
But it is different in the following case (A320 crash in November):
http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2008/d-la081127ea/pdf/d-la081127ea.pdf
I think it was careless of the crew to perform this maneuver at that situation. (I do not say this is was the root cause of the accident)
What is your opinion?
Thanks for this wonderful Blog.
Kermit
Definitely #4 :(
"pulled the stick back at the moment of stall instead of pushing forward"
In the situation he was in (icing situations), isn't it more likely he was the victim of a tail stall rather than a wing stall? The recovery procedure is to pull back on the stick from a tail stall.
You would know better than me.
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